I am a very patriotic Indonesian. When I was little, I practiced marching up and down those steps leading to flagpole minutes after August 17th flag raising ceremonies ended at our little Indonesian Embassy, as all the 'adults' came inside to feast on the day's prepared meals. I joined the PASKIBRA team during highschool when I was actually physically in Indonesia, having to endure many tortures prior to being initated into the group. I memorized all that history about why/how/who of our red and white flag, those UUD '45 pasal-s, all those natioanlistic songs. I knew how to march using the bamboo while only being let to eat a bite of 'singkong' all day long and constant fear of being dipped in mud or sewage water. I relinquished trips to malls during weekends just to get that march down. I knew how to march in straight line and turn in an actual group, with my eyes closed! Yep, I knew how to march.
So I am very patriotic, perhaps because I grew up in very secluded part of Indonesia where they only speak of good things about being Indonesian, a.k.a. the Indonesian diplomatic corps -- I didn't really have anything bad to say about being Indonesian. Even now, whenever I pick up three year old in New York City pre-school, I listen to this very patriotic Indonesian song, when no one else around me probably don't even know we as a people exist. So I dare anyone else who can be more patriotic than I am. I love Indonesia.
But I must say that I am very disappointed in Indonesians nowadays. We keep on picking at the wrong fights that seem to getting us nowhere. We just like to walk on the same spot I think. For instance, why do we pick on what Malaysians should and should not put as part of their tourism propaganda? Is this all what Indonesia is all about? I confess that there are more stuff I can grieve about, but let's just stick to this as one of the most popular thing going on right now.
I remember the time when I would introduce myself as Indonesian and people think that it is some remote area in Bali. I don't blame them. Back then, as the Indonesian diplomatic corps, we are made to tell people about the nice food we have to eat there, those traditional dances, those costumes that we don't really wear anymore except during marriages and such, but we say this is our Indonesia. Oh but some of the food we do eat in real life. But after the Tsunami, we are really popular as being a tragedy ridden nation filled with poor defenseless people, perhaps a smiling terrorist or two. So now we like to get back to being thought of as that remote part of Bali, or at least a Bali-like place, as it is after all a 'better image' of Indonesia?
Our Indonesia is much more than this to me. Much more that those dances I never learned to do, those elaborate costumes I never get to wear, those flavorful dishes. It is about a people who fought to become a free and proud country -- with their blood.
So I don't worry so much about what Malyasian's put in their tourism propaganda since I know Indonesia is much more than these superficial assets we call 'ours'. It is something that can never be taken away by anyone, no matter how many rendang's end up on a Malaysian Restaurant menu. It is what our forefather's have fought for us, the pride and the freedoms they gave us through their sacrifice. Something very much worth the fight. It is up to us to continue this struggle.
My father was Consulate General of Kota Kinabalu when the great TKI tragedy was developing in Malaysia. I remember I was able to go and have peaceful day and get my passport renewed in the Embassy there, while tons of Indonesians, men women children came pouring in looking for shelter, not much peaceful on their front. There are plenty of horror stories to go around. My dad got angry one time an 'Indonesian embasy staff' refused help to a man who was obviously hurt and beaten, as there was no room to take him in at the embassy. My father straightenedd that 'staff' out. So yes, there are plenty problems that we must try to sift through when it comes to our 'relations' with our closest neighbour. But we must be wise enough to pick fights that are worth our while.
tkmaia wrote on Dec 10, '07, edited on Dec 10, '07
First link is non viewble.. one does not give me much enlightment, just more useless negative attitude (btw. reog to me don't look much different from traditional chinese dragon dance, i've seen in performed in malaysia when i was living there as a kid).
If being proud of being Indonesian and promoting positive attitude is your definition of "lamenting".. then i have nothing else to say.
republic wrote on Dec 10, '07, edited on Dec 10, '07
malaysia dan indonesia are not serumpun anymore. we need to stop romanticizing ourselves. we are talking about two postcolonial nation-states that have different interests, ideologies, and histories. of course some of these elements are accidentally overlapping. but we need to see the conflict between the two as modern conflict that must be negotiated wisely. using the concept of "serumpun" only leads to more dillematic relationships. i concur with rizal sukma here . anyway, i like your patriotism. i used to listen to cokelat on the train to work.
You need to subscribe to the group. It's a cartoon of gatotkaca offering flower to a Malaysian uttering "I Hate Indon"
This quote is what I meant by your lament, not "being the proud Indonesian" thing: "But I must say that I am very disappointed in Indonesians nowadays. We keep on picking at the wrong fights that seem to getting us nowhere. We just like to walk on the same spot I think. For instance, why do we pick on what Malaysians should and should not put as part of their tourism propaganda? Is this all what Indonesia is all about? I confess that there are more stuff I can grieve about, but let's just stick to this as one of the most popular thing going on right now."
Rizal Sukma is right, but we're not the only ones invoking the notion of "serumpun." the Malay Malaysians do too. So to take "a realistic approach" we must also recognize that some elements of these two nation states still romanticize the notion of common root. As such, even though this is a weak concept for bilateral relation, it must somehow be taken into consideration in achieving what Sukma hopes to achieve, "namely mutual respect, equality and mutual benefits" in the relationship between the two states.
We keep on picking at the wrong fights that seem to getting us nowhere. We just like to walk on the same spot I think.
Oooh.. about time you write something like this. I agree. I really don't see why we need to fight about this and what's worse, we pick the fight only after we realize that someone steals it. There's no prevention done in terms of patent (tempe and Japan is a famous case), etc.
Anyway... I agree with Republic as well that it's time to stop the romantic notion of 'saudara serumpun'. It's time to be professionally diplomatic. Afterall, sibling rivalry is often the bitterest fight of all :p.
tkmaia wrote on Dec 11, '07, edited on Dec 11, '07
I read somewhere where malaysian prime minister was saying, in defense to why malaysians seem to be using many so called Indonesian 'traditions' in their cultural propaganda is that he believes we belong to one 'nusantara' (aka 'serumpun'), making it difficult for any of us to justify any coherent boundary between cultural entities, ie. which dance belongs to which nation etc., so there is no justification in invoking the idea of 'stealing a cultural entitiy'.
I agree with him.
I don't agree that we should stop the idea that in fact we are 'serumpun'. Because factually in a historical sense, even in biological sense, long before we became any modern nation state, we are 'serumpun'. Most Indonesians are culturally and biologically more related to most malaysians compared to indonesians of polynesian descent for example. This is a scientific fact. I don't believe we should negate this idea of 'serumpun' and forget that we ever were historically and biologically related, as it is a fact. I do agree that using this serumpun idea as way to 'make peace' is overly simplistic.
This is just the problem. We are just being overly simplistic about things when it comes to picking fights about cultural propaganda. First, it is absurd to think that we can make a clear cut boundary of cultural identity. This idea stems from the false perception that there is some distinct cultural entity (ie. a dance, a food type etc.) that is static to history and change. Second, it is absurd to think that the crime is not commiteed 'both ways'. This stance in 'pride' taken by a lot of Indonesians (I can say nothing about malaysians) sounds to me like some irritating 'higher than thou' attitude that can never manifest into anything productive.
The heart of the problem lies in the fact that we are two distinct modern nation states that are historically and biologiclaly related to one another ("serumpun"). It is a complex state of 'identity', one that cannot be understood or appreciated through perpetuating simplistic rationales of culture and history, or through promoting some "corrupting" ideals of moral supremacy (ie. i am better than you attitude) amongst ourselves. Once we acknowledge this complexity of the matter, we can perhaps go on and deal with 'serious' issues of bilateral relations in more practical and 'professional' diplomatic ways.
I read somewhere where malaysian prime minister was saying, in defense to why malaysians seem to be using many so called Indonesian 'traditions' in their cultural propaganda is that he believes we belong to one 'nusantara' (aka 'serumpun'), making it difficult for any of us to justify any coherent boundary between cultural entities, ie. which dance belongs to which nation etc., so there is no justification in invoking the idea of 'stealing a cultural entitiy'.
I agree with him.
I don't agree that we should stop the idea that in fact we are 'serumpun'. Because factually in a historical sense, even in biological sense, long before we became any modern nation state, we are 'serumpun'. Most Indonesians are culturally and biologically more related to most malaysians compared to indonesians of polynesian descent for example. This is a scientific fact. I don't believe we should negate this idea of 'serumpun' and forget that we ever were historically and biologically related, as it is a fact. I do agree that using this serumpun idea as way to 'make peace' is overly simplistic.
This is just the problem. We are just being overly simplistic about things when it comes to picking fights about cultural propaganda. First, it is absurd to think that we can make a clear cut boundary of cultural identity. This idea stems from the false perception that there is some distinct cultural entity (ie. a dance, a food type etc.) that is static to history and change. Second, it is absurd to think that the crime is not commiteed 'both ways'. This stance in 'pride' taken by a lot of Indonesians (I can say nothing about malaysians) sounds to me like some irritating 'higher than thou' attitude that can never manifest into anything productive.
The heart of the problem lies in the fact that we are two distinct modern nation states that are historically and biologiclaly related to one another ("serumpun"). It is a complex state of 'identity', one that cannot be understood or appreciated through perpetuating simplistic rationales of culture and history, or through promoting some "corrupting" ideals of moral supremacy (ie. i am better than you attitude) amongst ourselves. Once we acknowledge this complexity of the matter, we can perhaps go on and deal with 'serious' issues of bilateral relations in more practical and 'professional' diplomatic ways.
I can't agree more! I'm glad I'm not alone in this thinking.
kucingkembar wrote on Dec 11, '07, edited on Dec 11, '07
tkmaia: Reading your ruminations above, I am wondering who exactly is your intended audience. I think most of English-speaking, cosmopolitan, widely travelled Indonesians are not very bothered by these skirmishes.
But those who are low in the totem pole, the migrants -legal or illegal-, those who are dealing with day-to-day humiliation and contempt Malaysians inflicted on them, those who have to see the cynical smirk of immigration officers in Malaysian borders upon seeing their Indonesian passport, cannot be but outraged at such double standard of treatment.
It all boils down to economic rationality: When it is beneficial to claim the legacy of Javanese-Malaysian, Maluku-Malaysian, Nusantara-Malaysian etc, then by all means Malaysians "should have the right" to do so. But when these same people are considered burdensome, then Malaysians can treat them in any way they please. (Abuse by RELA to Indonesians are common knowledge among migrant workers).
In short, only when you (or your cultural legacies) are bringing in economic benefit are you valued.
These people may not be as sophisticated as some of us who have the luxury of reflection and rumination and theorizing. But their pain (of being valued strictly in economic term) is very real. If reclaiming what they see as their cultural heritage may sooth the wound, then be it, so long as it is not done in a violent manner.
As about "serumpun": traditionally (I am talking about 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th century Malay world) what is now Peninsular Malaysia did not have much similarities with indic Nusantara, i.e. Java/Bali that has strong indic/hindu legacy in its culture. It did have some connection with -say- Aceh, Deli, Pontianak, some Malay-based Kasultanans in Kalimantan, as well as with Bugis, courtesy of traders who have settled in the area during the heyday of Malacca. But to claim "reog" as part of the Nusantara heritage is too much, as is to claim Javanese shadow puppet as their Nusantara heritage.
To get a sense of the history of the archipelago to 17th C, I highly recommend Anthony Reid 3 volume History of Southeast Asia. They are fascinating read! It is written in Annales (a school in history writing) style.
To get a sense of the history of the archipelago to 17th C, I highly recommend Anthony Reid 3 volume History of Southeast Asia. They are fascinating read! It is written in Annales (a school in history writing) style.
Thanks. But so you know that Indonesians, including many Javanese people, have been migrating into Malaysia for many years now and continuing! It's not just some 17th century South East Asian history, it is going on now! They come in packs, we know them as those 'migrant workers' we all care so much about. Some of them actually have kids, their kids have kids as well, many of them actually becoming Malaysian citizens.
Most of them had to endure such 'persecutions' we all know too well as second class citizens in a foreign land. But heck, they can't go back, there is nothing to go back to, they rather hide in the hills and be beaten in one of those 'kelapa sawit' plantations for very little pay or even no pay at all, but it's either this or starve to death. But now we say to them, the descendants of these brave migrants, you can't dance the dance your father taught you, the foods your mother cook for you, because you are Malaysians now and you no longer have any right to these 'cultures' that now belong to a country that is no longer yours (unless you specifically reference each source of the dance you are about the dance as 'patent of Indonesia'). But we say, don't worry, we are doing all this because we care about you.. we will save you.. we are Saints!
Ah.. but I can only lament, theorize, ruminate .. and post YouTube songs:
These songs are dedicated to those brave and courageous migrant wokers and their families we obviously care so much about (for the second song, change the superdome to kelapa sawit plantations and so on..you'll get the picture ):
But now we say to them, the descendants of these brave migrants, you can't dance the dance your father taught you, the foods your mother cook for you, because you are Malaysians now and you no longer have any right to these 'cultures' that now belong to a country that is no longer yours
these are, of course, anecdotal. But can be a starting point to find out what other Malaysians of Indonesian descent have to say about their cultural heritage.
tkmaia wrote on Dec 11, '07, edited on Dec 11, '07
From kucingkembar's link: "Kesenian Reog ini memang berkembang di Malaysia. Kami pun sangat senang dapat memertahankan dan mengembangkan kesenian Reog. Tapi kami tidak setuju jika diklaim sebagai kesenian Malaysia, karena asalnya memang dari Ponorogo," kata Ketua Sanggar Tari Sri Wahyuni, Mohd Marzi, kepada ANTARA di Batu Pahat, Rabu (5/12). "Persoalannya memang menjadi rumit jika sudah dicampuri oleh urusan politik," katanya.
Hmm.. an Indonesian newspaper.. so .. Indonesian reporter comes to you, a second class malaysian citizen reog dancer about the dance their fathers brought in from a country you ran away from (important note: you probably still have some relatives living in ponorogo, jawa timur, indonesia). Reporter ask you 'should reog dance be considered as 'malaysian culture'?'.. surely, you can only say one thing (see reog dancer comment above). As you answer reporter in the back of your mind you are reminded of the fact that your livelihood and art are further threatened by this big shot from ponorogo, elaborated from same said newspaper couple weeks back: http://www.antara.co.id/arc/2007/11/22/soal-klaim-reog-bupati-ponorogo-akan-lawan-malaysia/
My opinion: we Indonesians should show our respects to these artisans by letting them just dance. That whatever culture these people brought with them is theirs, not some cultural entity to be pawned by either country as means to further certain politcal agenda. We should leave them alone. If their dances still end up in one of those tourism posters in malaysia, Indonesians should be wise not make matters worse and complain about it.. let them just dance and do their art (afterall, those posters may help tourists come and see them dance in Malaysia and help them generate some income to live on).
i believe this case is not about indonesian migranst in malaysia. this is about the malaysian government that claims indonesian-originated arts as theirs. nobody in indonesia prohibits those indonesian migrants to play their arts. but once the malaysian government, a political institution made up by a set of interests, made an official claim, the case becomes political. so this is actually a war between indonesian people and malaysian government, not malaysian people including those migrants.
nobody in indonesia prohibits those indonesian migrants to play their arts.
yeah.. but they are required by indonesians to state the rightful ownership of the dance patent! If they don't, ponorogo people might like to just not sell their insturments and stuff for malaysians reog dancers to dance with.. this really helps them dance better and make a living ;p
yes.. but then these migrants get burnt in the process, it's all connected you see.
this is totally wrong thinking. dont mix the cultural war with indonesia and malaysia with the issue of migrants. those are completely separate things.
yeah.. but they are required by indonesians to state the rightful ownership of the dance patent! If they don't, ponorogo people might like to just not sell their insturments and stuff for malaysians reog dancers to dance with.. this really helps them dance better and make a living ;p
no...no...that's not the case. what makes many indonesians upset is the malaysian government's official claim on indonesian cultural products. indonesian people want the government to get those products be patented so that malaysian governent wont claim easily. the problem resides in the malaysian government.
this is totally wrong thinking. dont mix the cultural war with indonesia and malaysia with the issue of migrants. those are completely separate things.
If you read the chronological reporting on the issue of the 'reog' dance, you are able trace back the whole debate to these migrants. The only way malaysians are able to put a picture of reog like costume in their website is because they have access to a reog costume from none other than indonesian-probolingon-malaysians who are doing the art in malaysia -- they or their ancestors are indonesian migrants.
Indeed, the debate started because some indonesian person saw the reog costume on the malaysian website, including the rasa sayange song. Indonesian person complain, more indonesians got angry, now it becomes a whole national issue.
Of course, at first glance we see that it got nothing to do with the migrants right? we just want what is ours? We are still letting the reog dancers dance in Malaysia. We are only claiming that the malaysian government are stealing our national heritage. We have no problem with the people.
Unfortuntely, as we have raised this issue at political and government level (no longer some guy getting angry looking at malaysian website), anything 'political' that comes out of this debate will have an effect on the people they govern.
I am not trying to mix the debate of migrants with the cultural wars, but the reality is, when you look at what is happening (in this reog debate specifically), it is starting to converge, with indonesian-malaysians reog dancers being shuffled in the process, whether they like it or not, whether they support the indonesians or not.
I don't know how we should solve this cultural debate wars. But they way I see we have been going about it isn't helping much.
Surely we can't ignore aspirations of the indonesian people, most importantly for this particular issue, the Indonesian reog dancers marching in protest in front of the malaysian embassy. But then, what about those malaysian-indonesian reog dancers? how do they benefit from this whole debate?
This issue can explode and touch on other aspects of indonesian-malaysian relations. We can't see these debates as totally distinct and are unrelated to one another, as in reality, it is not.
you got chinatown in US but US government wont claim that american culture. the fact that californian people are mostly asian doesnt make the californian state claim barongsai as californian. it is as simple as that.
in the case of malaysia, what we are seeing now is a systematic endeavor of building a cultural identity of malaysia. they're highly aware of their similatiries with indonesia and that most of their cultural products originates from dutch indies (now indonesia). that's why they need to claim those products for the sake of national identity (and of course their tourism industry).
you got chinatown in US but US government wont claim that american culture.
Chinatown is a place, not a culture. Though the people living there doing their thing is culture, and actually what they do is considered as something very american, as things going on in little italy is very american .. and so on. In america, culture is not under the authority of the governemnt. I have yet to see an officer of the US government dictating americans as to what culture is considered a 'valid' american culture. This would be considered silly and actually racist!
Pizza, spagetti, is considered part of american culture, we know them as definite staple american foods, though we all know it originates from italy (the first pizza place opened up in spring st. new york city as recent as 1905!). Even more recently, mediteranian meals have been incorporated into american culture (the vegan) scene, and is considered very new yorkish thereby becoming very american. I daresay this vegan culture is a much more recent acquisition in america than the reog dance in malaysia!
Americans don't see culture as belonging to a country in geographic political sense, but to people whose roots are older than nationality.
If we want strict definition of culture as indonesians understand it (something homegrown that has developed in the now distinct political geographic boudaries for hunderds of years), then actually, america don't really have any culture as everything is realy 'stolen' from everywhere else!
they're highly aware of their similatiries with indonesia and that most of their cultural products originates from dutch indies (now indonesia). that's why they need to claim those products for the sake of national identity (and of course their tourism industry).
yes they (the malaysian government) admit that all these things come from indonesia!!!!
Americans don't see culture as belonging to a country in geographic political sense, but to people whose roots are older than nationality.
exactly. malaysian gov should learn that. they dont need to make a series of cultural claims unless they specify the origins of those cultural products.
tkmaia wrote on Dec 13, '07, edited on Dec 13, '07
They didn't. Look, they posted a the rasa sayange song (which we all know has old malay language lyrics) on a tourism website, this goes to a link of hotels and TV comercial about malaysian tourism, with banner of people some in malay muslim garb, one guy looks like he is wearing a batik though, others are wearing regular 21'st century clothes! They don't even highlight anything very 'cultural' in this site, mostly are links of places to visit in malaysia. It is hardly some official proclamation by malaysian government that the song is something that is 'owned' by them.
Actually I kind of like their strategy. If you look at the TV comercial (click the rasa sayange link and then find TV commercial), most of it is scenes of regular people in 'modern' times doing their thing and feeling happy in malaysia (most of them wear T-shirts), only one or two seconds in the end do they post a bit of dances and 'traditional costumes'. Very unlike those boring and predictable Indonesian tourism commercials that show people dancing and wearing weird costumes and acting so romantic about it.. ;p
tkmaia wrote on Dec 13, '07, edited on Dec 13, '07
What do you imply by posting the 2nd YouTube video above?
When I see the 2nd video I feel glad because at least in 1962, Indonesians actually understood that these songs are our common heritage (malaysians-indonesians), it is not a mutually exclusive entity (that either only indonesians own it OR malaysians). Rasa Sayange is a malay greeting put into song, and was probably used by malays for a long time to say hi and good-bye to each other, which was why indonesians put it in the fourth asian games tape and given as token of friendship (the song was defintely not created by indonesians in 1962). It is a malay heritage that is shared by both nations.
It's a beautiful song, an excerpt of the lyrics:
"Kalau ada sumur di ladang, boleh kita menumpang mandi Kalau ada umurku panjang, boleh kita berjumpa lagi"
I'm sure Indonesians who fight over this song don't really understand what it really is saying , but indonesians are known for their superficial attitude. I regret to say that this attitude makes us look very very stupid. We were better people in 1962, we understood what depth and character meant, not so much now. Perhaps the orde baru ways is actually much more detrimental to our attitude that I had ever imagined. But I have high hopes for Indonesians, that we can come through this in one piece, which is why I care so much about this issue.
you should check www.heritage.gov.my where they made those claims
I should explain again. It should not be up to any government to dictate which culture can be considered 'valid'. This does not mean that they can't put up a list of certain dances and songs on a goverment website and claiming it as part of their heritage. As long as there are people in a country who inherited these cultural attributes, a country should be free to state them as part of their heritage (ie. as long as there are people of ponorogo descendent in malaysia, malaysians are free to claim the reog dance as part of their heritage .. even rename it to barongan if need be).
What a government should not do is to state that these are mutually exclusinve entities (ie. indonesians are not allowed to post up the same dances and songs since it is already posted in the malaysian website), and that it is stagnant to change. Saying that a list of cultural attributes is exclusively owned by a country and some shouldnt even be part of the list is a racist act (please refer to my post on 'Culture and Identity').
Unfortunately Indonesia is doing this: saying some cultures are exclusively their own, and some cultures (ie. many western culture) should not be part of this list. We are perpetuating very racist attitudes indeed, which can only lead to our detriment.
What do you imply by posting the 2nd YouTube video above?
simply to show how pitiful and uncreative the Malaysian government is to use a song that doesnt come from its own people. i believe they have many folksongs good enough to attract foreign tourists. why they used obviously an indonesian song? did they know that? did they do research on songs they're going to use? or they're just simply oblivious.
anyway, i'm off this debate. i start feeling a tendency of "stupidization" just because we have different views. it tells me that those "defending" malaysia are as emotional as those "attacking" it.
why they used obviously an indonesian song? did they know that? did they do research on songs they're going to use? or they're just simply oblivious.
anyway, i'm off this debate. i start feeling a tendency of "stupidization" just because we have different views. it tells me that those "defending" malaysia are as emotional as those "attacking" it.
It's not an indonesian song, it is a folk song sung under malay like dialect which none of us really know not the origins of it's individual authorship, thereby the name 'folk song'. It is therefore open to be reclaimed as heritage by anyone doing trade and commerce for hunderds of years in the general vicinity of these equatorial islands. It is open to be reclaimed as heritage to those people who understand the true depth and meaning behind it. This is the essence of heritage and culture, it knows no nationality, nor geography, it lies deep within the true hearts of individuals who understand it.
I am not defending malaysians, I am defending Indonesia's true heritage as a country of pluralism and tolerance. I am defending the righful ownership of rasa sayange, and the likes, as the true heritage of all people that have lived together under such shared common history, long before it was divided up piecemeal by imperialists into the modern states we see today. I am defending the rights of individuals of their freedom to honor their heritage as they see fit. Sure, this is an emotional stance that must be fought for -- aggresively.
It is crucial that we understand the negative impact of our claims in this cultural wars. What comes out of this ties in very close to our struggle as we fight to secure our rights as Indonesians, as we fight to make Indonesia a nation our forefathers dreamt of being. This is not just a 'topic' to be 'discussed' in blogs, it is not about 'differeing views', it is about our struggle as Indonesians, it is about fighting for the rights of the people of Indonesia. By 'winning' the claims we put forth in these 'cultural wars', we are set back in our fight for human rights and justice in Indonesia, we will be worse off than before we won our rights to choose our own government, our own independence. My fight in this really has nothing to do with Malaysia. Stupid is indeed a harsh word. But I say it rarely to make a point. I say stupid because indeed, we, you, me are indeed stupid people if we end up just sitting back and watch our Indonesia fall. Surely, if this happens, I will be the most the stupid one.
We keep on picking at the wrong fights that seem to getting us nowhere. We just like to walk on the same spot I think. 